I am very proud of him! In his attempt to return to the pulpit, McFarland sparked much interest from pastoral search committees — until internet hunts revealed the pending lawsuit. Church members voted to hire McFarland just before settlement of the lawsuit against him. Those sessions spurred McFarland to unearth childhood hurts he never had confronted.
McFarland also came to realize he had brought the workaholic demands of the business world into ministry. But while hour weeks may be the norm at Microsoft, McFarland succumbed to the added stress of always being on call in ministry. He reached the point of downing a case of energy drinks every week to battle exhaustion, a habit that led to poor decision-making. McFarland says he now cultivates healthy ways of dealing with stress such as walking or reading a book, rather than caving to damaging triggers.
Throughout his ministry, McFarland always has been a topical and expository preacher, a humorous and self-effacing speaker. Just as he preached openly about his struggles at Radiant, he remains transparent about his failures at Covina. That has given him an inroad to reach millennials, many of whom have absentee dads.
I was giving an example in scripture that it occurred. I am not trying to give a roadmap, formula, or a plan for restoration processes. I do not believe that once a person falls in a certain area, the Church can never trust that person in that area ever again — that does not seem like full forgiveness to me would be a cause for despair.
I admit this is difficult, very difficult, and takes time. There are no equations, just Christ Himself. The Power of God is greater than all our sin. This takes a whole lot of discernment — not discernment of a restoration process — but of the Person of Jesus Christ in the repentant person. I gave examples that priestly function was restored in scripture — it is possible. Israel will yet again be restored to her priestly function among the nations IMO. She is not above reproach, but she will pay a very very heavy price before she recognizes her Messiah and King, and then is restored.
I hope to learn a few things, here. I know there are examples in scripture, though, so the possibility exists. TEDSgrad : These appear to me to be more grievous than to succumb to the temptations of human sexuality even of predatory nature. To fellowship with Christ, if one is truly repentant, yes. To a position of authority, no. Paul spoke of being disqualified. Being a minister is a privilege, not a divine right. A privilege which can be lost. Also, what bothers me about your comment is that you are aware victims will think differently, you are aware people will be hurt, yet you say you must think of it this way.
They restore trust without seeing proof of repentance. Leviticus and Numbers especially Ch 8 — the Levites shall be Mine! To minister is to serve! Who are we to think we should serve the LORD??? Surely you will rethink that. The result being, I also serve my fellow mankind. He is my All in All. Then, the result being, I also serve others.
Idolatry is putting the created before the Creator. It certainly sounds like its very important and related, not way down the list into idolatry or something. Ken—yes, and Wesleyan Arminianism comes closer to EO than many traditions do. And that classic Arminianism is different from the Wesleyan and its offshoots such as Pentecostal, AoG, etc.
Others are more about the slow path both to justification and sanctification. Just a pet peeve of mine I guess when all the various and very varied ideas get lumped into the accusation, quite unfair, that ANY of them teach all you have to do is walk an aisle, fill out a card, pray a certain prayer, and you are guaranteed heaven no matter how horrendously you sin.
Yes, AG is ordains women and presents itself in egalitarian ways or so say their position papers. Read some articles by their women pastors and you will see how male-centric and male-favored it is. My experience at AG allowed me to do much in leadership-type things. But i observed that i and all women had to be sort of babysat by a man. Men were not subjected to such things. Egalitarian-but-with-a-leash is male headship, just dressed up.
Eve was not a daughter of God? I agree. Respectfully disagree. Salvation is a one-time event. Sanctification growth and maturity into the likeness of Christ is a lifetime process. I could also say the Bible sufficiently supports this view. BillToo : Salvation is a one-time event. One can hold this opinion, but one should also recognize that it is not what the earliest Christians believed.
Since the bible itself describes our salvation in past, present, and future terms it seems like we should be cautious about insisting it is a once and done deal. Did you read the perspective I posted higher up in this thread? Thank you, Ken F! As you say, no one in the early Church saw salvation as a one-time event. All the early Church Fathers saw it as a lifelong process. That includes the earliest Fathers who knew the Apostles personally. Were they all wrong? Was everyone wrong for years until Luther and Calvin came along??
So much for the Gates of Hell not prevailing! If you are willing to read more recent theologians, then why not read the earliest Church Fathers as well, including those who actually knew the apostles? BillToo : Respectfully disagree.
I accepted Jesus. The whole nine yards. It felt very real at the time. Now I am no longer a believer. So…am I saved or not? After seeing that it just re-affirms my decision to go to a liturgical church. Why do pastors think they need to talk to that subject. Catholic Gate-Crasher : If you are willing to read more recent theologians, then why not read the earliest Church Fathers as well,. Catholic Gate-Crasher : As you say, no one in the early Church saw salvation as a one-time event.
Frankly, if you are a Protestant as I always was that is exactly what you often unwittingly believe. Gee, wonder why there is so much abuse in The Church?
Thank you so much! I apologize for leaving in a silly huff. TS00 : Frankly, if you are a Protestant as I always was that is exactly what you often unwittingly believe. This is one of the funny things about sola scriptura. If there really was a great apostasy after all the disciples died, then the Bible was canonized by apostates and therefore cannot be trusted. But if we can trust that it was not put together by apostates, then we have to face the reality that godly people were teaching godly stuff that deserves our attention.
I am now coloring outside the lines by trying to get in touch with those early Christian teachings that developed in parallel with the NT canon. Ken F aka Tweed : Since the bible itself describes our salvation in past, present, and future terms. The veil was rent in two. What about all of the book of Hebrews on the superiority of Christ? Jack : I accepted Jesus. If only their victims could heal and regain a sense of trust on such a brief and predictable timetable. No, for many the loss of trust is lifelong.
I even suspect its typical usage within Christianity is often far from its intended meaning. This is a very important point. It seems to me that in much of the protestant world salvation is primarily viewied in a legal sense as being saved from sin and its consequences, with justification being focused on moral improvement. Not too long ago I learned that the Orthodox view of salvation focuses on becoming godly thoeosis. The two perapectives are very different.
I think quite a lot of religious arguments are based on not taking the time to understand how the other side is using words. That would be presumptuous of me and probably rude as well. I see this as ONE salvation with different phases. Truly repentant? Crying without tears is a good sign they are not. SiteSeer : Leviticus? The ethnic portions of the Mosaic Law are done away with. And yes, Christ has fulfilled the Law. Too easily, a charge of Legalism is levied at those who desire to do the Law; not as a means, but as a consequence of redemption.
We are to be holy for He is Holy. The Law was given after redemption from Egypt through the sea as a means of maintaining the relationship so that the Presence of the LORD would not destroy them ongoing cleanliness needed. In the Gospels we are set free by the blood of the Lamb. God speaks to us from without. We have the ground of fellowship — redemption. This corresponds to Exodus where the Paschal Lamb was provided and the people were brought out of slavery and bondage before they were brought to Sinai and given the Law.
In the Epistles, we are indwelt by the Spirit of God. God speaks to us from within. We have the walk of fellowship with God — sanctification. In Leviticus , God speaks from within the camp. The Levitical sacrifices typify how this new relationship must be maintained. The Levitical law shows the work of atonement as it bears on those who are already redeemed!
As Paul wrote most of the Epistles, he was intimately acquainted with it had it memorized. Seems like you are trying to straddle both sides of the fence.
Thank God for the realities of basic survival needs. On the first, perhaps we cannot see it entirely or in truth. Some people are great liars. But generally we can see how they act towards their victims, how much responsibility they take for what they did, etc.
We can perhaps judge rightly over time and see if the old behaviors come back. I know one of the things mentioned about domestic violence groups is that you have to talk to the spouse or partner to see whether behaviors have really changed. What do the people involved think?
Do they trust? It will happen in its own time or not at all, and then you need a long time to see if it is real. As for the second, no. I would say there are occasions where trust is NEVER regained in the sense that a person who abused power over others should not be put in a position of power ever again.
Children are not adults and cannot protect themselves. That assumes that A automatically leads to B which then leads to C. You can give yourself to Jesus, I suppose but what about egregious crimes? The problem is Christians are being duped into all sorts of weirdness around this.
These Christians no matter what a Christian does, their being saved means they are above any sort of reproach. The abnormal is becomes normal and in the patriarchal world that many of these authoritarian organizations follow, who loses? Women and children, mostly. When I left the christianity, I made my peace with mortality.
Sure you can profess but A does lead to B or C. Jack : Sure you can profess but A does lead to B or C. Jack : The problem is Christians are being duped into all sorts of weirdness around this. His most extreme type example was a suicide bomber taking out a school and all in it to accomplish something far superior in the Far More Important Spiritual Realm. There is no sin greater then denying God. Yes he sinned yes he is a sinner, we are all sinners, God gave up his only sin for us knowing our sins before us.
Who are we to judge this man? There are plently of people who found God while in prison who got out and started churches. I have the pleasure of saying I knew this man his wife and children before this during this and even after all this happened. How long should he have to carry the cross? He is not here to prove to anyone anything, he is here to spread Gods word and bring people closer to God.
He made mistakes he is only human. How many times has the Catholic faith had minor predators mixed in with their church? He is only trying to bring Gods word to as many people as possible, through catchey titles,jokes and Gods mercy. Leave him and his family alone, let God be the one to judge him, dont bash him his family and the church, they are all in Gods hands just as each and everyone of you are.
Jack : TEDSgrad ,. So a Theocracy was necessary King and Priest. Circumcision and dietary laws were the ethnic portions of the law which set them apart. Paul had his argument with Peter that these things were done away with, and the Gentiles were included in the people of God NT Church.
The NT Church was no longer a theocracy, but was transnational and spiritual. Now that the Good News had come, it was no longer bound by ethnic concerns.
The Kingdom of God is not ethnic. But the Promised Seed was an ethnic descendant according to the promises. We are to be set apart holy, consecrated so that carries forward into the NT. The mechanism by which we are set apart is not by ethnicity physical circumcision or dietary laws but by faith spiritual.
We are still bound by covenant in the NT, just not the old covenant. So the truth principles still carry forward do not turn to the left or the right and we must remain faithful. We are brought out of bondage Exodus first, and then brought into covenant keeping a New Covenant. There are stipulations to the covenant! There is also constant cleansing needed to remain in covenant and for His abiding Presence corporately and individually.
I hope this explains in a small post without opening up too many more questions. The seed and the land were always connected in the prophecies. This is where theologians scratch their heads ethnic vs spiritual. Seed is ethnic literally semen. There are still prophecies to be fulfilled that involve ethnic not spiritual Israel and the land. Christ will return to be enthroned on the throne of David ethnic. There must be a nation for the throne to exist. That throne is tied to the house of David.
Kristine M Hoffmann : How long should he have to carry the cross? He has been forgiven. He should not longer be a pastor. He gave away his pastor card the day he used his office to hurt another. It is NOT discussing being a pastor. Kristine M Hoffmann : he is here to spread Gods word and bring people closer to God.
So this makes no sense whatsoever. Kristine M Hoffmann : Yes he sinned yes he is a sinner, we are all sinners,. Some sin are worse than other sins.
There is a reason that counselors in secular organizations lose their licenses when they do this. In your model, the church should have lower standards than secular society. Kristine M Hoffmann : He made mistakes he is only human. Hmm, so what you are saying that he only made a mistake because he is human? First of all, he sinned. Secondly he abused a woman under his care. Thirdly, and I think this may be hard for your to understand, but not everyone our there does this to other people.
I am human. I have never done this to another. He did and he forfeits his right to be a pastor. Kristine M Hoffmann : He is only trying to bring Gods word to as many people as possible, through catchey titles,jokes and Gods mercy. Leave him and his family alone, let God be the one to judge him,. Now, you may have not been taught this in your church so thank about this carefully.
We are called to judge actions of one another. That is why the Bible lists out sins. The judgement that you are speaking of is the judgement of salvation. Only that is in God;s hands. I said what he did was despicable and abusive and that he should never return to the pulpit. I can say that. The Bible tells me that I can. What are they teaching in your church? I am concerned that there is far more wrong than an abusive pastor. Maybe he has left the teaching at jokes and catchy titles…?
Please find a healthy church and a good pastor and red your Bible bit more carefully. Kristine M Hoffmann : How many times has the Catholic faith had minor predators mixed in with their church? Minor predators? TEDSgrad : The seed and the land were always connected in the prophecies. Respectfully, it sounds like a very complicated religion Christianity in all its variants.
But then again, what religion on the planet is not complicated? Leave him and his family alone, let God be the one to judge him. Dear, have you ever read the story of Uzzah in the old testament? I find that in the church, simply throwing out that one is all about bringing the gospel message to the unsaved is all it takes to defuse all judgment on the part of other Christians. Somehow that makes it okay to overlook all manner of destructive behavior.
We really are a gullible lot. You say this man and his family are your friends. But we need to look at the victims of bad behavior as friends, too. You can support your friend without putting him back in a position of temptation.
The Bible is clear that there are standards for pastors. TEDSgrad : Too easily, a charge of Legalism is levied at those who desire to do the Law; not as a means, but as a consequence of redemption. Love does no harm to a neighbor, love is therefore the fulfillment of the law. My husband and I were attending Radiant during this time. It should be noted that when first accused, McFarland LIED to the congregation and denied any of the allegations were true.
It was only after a lot of indisputable proof was revealed, he confessed. Disgusted and extremely disappointed, we stopped attending and found another church home. I worked on staff here under Lee McFarland. I resigned after experiencing multiple instances of harassment. I documented everything with dates, spoke to my direct reports for months, finally filed an official complaint with the AG network. Despite confirmation from witnesses and pages pages of evidence, nobody did anything.
Within my first month, I began experiencing multiple incidents of harassment and decided to document it all with dates and witness names. After speaking with my direct reports and confronting him directly for months, I resigned and filed an official complaint with the AG Socal Network.
Despite witnesses confirming my accusations, multiple pages of incidents with dates, and over 20 people resigning in my first year, nothing was done. PHOENIX CN - A pastor at a megachurch manipulated a parishioner during counseling and told her to have sex with him, with "God's approval," and divorce her husband, the couple claim in court.
Jody claims she began counseling with McFarland after her daughter allegedly was victimized by a Prescott youth counselor. Jody Gallagher claims McFarland told her "that he was receiving direction from God regarding his counsel to her and told her that Derek had abandoned her emotionally. She claims that McFarland "love bombed" her "with romantic declarations telling her of his love for her and God's approval of him and Jody becoming sexually involved.
Derek Gallagher claims he too sought counseling from McFarland, and told him "of his love for Jody and his children and his complete inability to understand why his family was falling apart and Jody drawing away from him.
After meeting with Derek, "McFarland told Jody that Derek was the most dangerous and violent man he had ever seen and that he was personally 'scared to death' of Derek during his counseling session," the Gallaghers say.
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